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Talk:Would You Kindly
it says that the reason fontain didnt say "would you kindly" in regards to the little sisters is because he didnt want it to be abvious that you are brainwashed, wouldnt the reason be so that it doesnt create a story hole for players who decide to play as a good guy and save the little sisters? good point - Or Fontaine didnt care about the Little Sisters one way or the other, and since you get the same amount of ADAM either way (to boost you up to be able to reach and kill Ryan ) the difference didnt matter. Possibly also overuse could cause problems and Fontaine/Atlas figured he could 'con' you much of the way towards what he wanted achieved. "It is quite evident however that Lamb's project had gleaned staggering results," Is it ?? Or was Sinclairs 'conversion' just another lie? First its Quite a bit too fast to get Sinclair into a suit (just the work to do that isnt trivial, assuming they had the parts all ready to go and it was all done at THIS facility ?? Not Point Prometheus). Fitting, Surgery, Whatever mechanics/electronics are needed... And then to get him all conditioned (the training just to work the suit is significant) to be controlled as much as he is shown to be. Its also rather difficult to run a body on remote control to do all the fancy (and quick) actions that the 'Sinclair' Alpha does. Some kind of 'drone' remote control (except about 20X as complex as any existing drone has today - human body movements take ALOT of coordination) Some variety/variant of Hypnotize? But that was motivation (Daddy Now Friend!!) not remote control - the Hypnotized Daddy coordinated itself and carried out typical behaviors/actions and just the target selection was different. And his mouth (free on Sinclair so he can do his 'swan song' for the plot) IS part of your bodies motor control, so NOW how to split between that and other parts of the body he isnt allowed to control?? .... that aspect Just adds another layer of difficulty (If he'd been quiet then it would have been simpler). Voice control (?) telling him what to do -- when Sinclairs mind is still there to jam it ? Now we are doing complex multi-mind weirdnes? Simpler to have Lamb Possess the Alpha/Sinclair/whatever like we did the Little Sister previously. Add ALL those up and its pretty unlikely to implement and make workable all that so fast. How Fast ? How long between the time Sinclair was left in the Train (at FF you still heard him guiding you). When you went into Outer Persephone and he's admonishing you to get Eleanor out of the isolation room. Radio Messages Persephone "Signal Breaking Out" So somewere in there Sinclair is captured (how long were you out when Eleanor was strangled and you were 'dying' on the table...) All the "You Become a Little Sister" stuff happens - but it cant be too long if you are supposed to be 'dying' from the Pair Bond being broken. Then you (Delta) explore half of Inner Persephone before you hear that Sinclair is locked in the Wardens Office now as an Alpha (enemy). How long was it to that point? Hours? First time we got ADAM, how long were we unconscious when the shock hit our system ?? (Heh - System Shock...) Subtract that time as Sinclair being too 'out of it' for 'conditioning'. Sinclair also mentions that Sofia tortured information out of him "bomb codes" (yet another odd thing...). Anyway, more delays for this 'conversion'. -- Suggest alternate explanation - Lamb was just pulling one of her psyche manipulation games and that wasnt Sinclair in the Alpha Suit that Delta chases. All we hear is a radio link (no face as usual) of his voice and he thus could be anywhere (and NOT in the Suit). He could be whacked out on drugs and made to think a simulators TV he's watching is him in the suit (to account for the few comments he makes - most of which are actually his comments on what Delta is doing - how is he seeing that? ) . This is possibly alot simpler than THAT oh-so-quick "Turned Sinclair into a Pet Robot" that Sofia claims. -- Next discussion - WTF Sofia gave the Key to 'Sinclair' so that Delta could take it ?? Encrypted "WYK" Author of this note: "In ''Burial at Sea - Episode 2, the code for "Would You Kindly" appears as P-F-V-K-Ar-Mg-Sc-Al-B-Na-Sc-Ar-Mn-B, which does not translate to "W-O-U-L-D-Y-O-U-K-I-N-D-L-Y", but rather "O-I-W-S-R-L-U-M-E-K-U-R-Y-E""'' was not correct, 'cause he/she just decrypted numbers of chemical elements to letters but didn't decrypt them from Vigenere cipher. These letters means exactly "Wouldyoukindly" using "Suchong" keyword. Better to delete this note. Clever Suchong except when the plot ... Suchong might have been clever enough to make his 'Ace in the Hole' keyword be written in Korean. BaS2 - Elizabeth sees through multiple visions the future of Atlas, seeing his downfall as Fontaine by Jack's hands, as well as" Wasnt Elizabeth supposed to have lost her powers after being killed ?? Or now its only some of them she gets back for the plot, when more of them would be inconvenient (like bugging out for Paris) ? She does lose her powers, but she REMEMBERS seeing all the Doors. The "visions" she experiences during the game are actually her remembering things that she's already seen. TheLighthouse (talk) 16:13, January 1, 2015 (UTC) Mechanisms of 'Would You Kindly' Not sure if it's a continuity error/oversight, but in the Andrew Ryan monologue, Jack will actually physically sit and stand BEFORE hearing the 'Would You Kindly' suggestion (that takes place after the sit and stand commands): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG25S51qJQQ#t=01m48s I couldn't find any discussions about this online, and it certainly isn't mentioned here. But if we consider this not to be a mistake, then it suggests that the 'Would You Kindly' phrase is used to create and reinforce compliance in Jack (Ryan uses the phrase twice before the sit/stand commands), as opposed to directly making him follow any specific order. The rest of the scene is consistent with this (Ryan only uses 'Would you Kindly' early on and doesn't need to use it when he actually commands Jack to kill him). In its current form, I don't think this article properly conveys this aspect (or at least it doesn't dismiss the misconceived usage of the phrase), but I don't feel comfortable changing it unless someone else agrees. Consequently, if we change this article, then the 'A man chooses, a slave obeys' article should also be changed, as it has a few inaccuracies both in its description of Ryan's actions and the transcript. LotsoRobbinBear (talk) 04:19, May 20, 2014 (UTC) It also works when written - the note on the plane Though shouldnt Ryan WYK wall says it too - is written on the wall - and that should have confused Jack at that point maybe. Fonatine/Atlas use it both at the front and back ends of different command he gives Jack ''as well as Sally being among the Little Sisters rescued by Jack. Which shows the flaw in the whole multiverse thing and Elizabeth being able to see much of anything, as countless Evil Jacks 'Harvested' Sally (players doing their own little 'coin flip' experiment) and had a tasty ADAM filled SeaSlug treat to eat (seaslugs are mollusks so it probably didnt taste like chicken). If the Luteces were keeping count, what do you think their chalkboard would show if you (as the player) got NOTHING at all for 'Saving' a Little Sister in the game and only got tasty ADAM for Harvesting them ? :Maybe, (implausibly and against all odds) there's only one Sally. Across all the universes, she the's only one, AND maybe she happens to be in a universe where Jack is a rescuerer and not a harvester. :Still...THIS THEORY ONLY WORKS IF THIS ISN'T THE SAME RAPTURE FROM ''BIO1! :Unownshipper (talk) 23:55, May 27, 2014 (UTC) :::Irrational writiers attempt of making a bitter sweet "happy" ending but in truth, ensuring that no company can make a franchise game out of Elizabeth as this is the end of her story. Heck, maybe its the same Rapture but different timeline split off on whether Elizabeth goes back to Rapture to save Sally or doesn't, the latter creating "evil" Jack. Maybe Elizabeth just saw one possibility and thats what we're presented. because thats the only possibly enough for her to die satisfied knowing that at least in one universe, Sally and the other sisters do live. - :::Hmmmm, Bittersweet ending - Elizabeth of course not seeing much at all whats actually going to happen when she frees Fontaine/Atlas to bring about the civil war that kills/makes dead thousands and pretty much dooms Rapture (and anyone left), and at the end she really doesnt know that Sally will be really be saved (or harvested by evil jack (or by a thousand other ADAM crazed splicers) or whacked as a BigSister by Delta or Sigma) or will wind up one of the few taken to the surface who could still wind up in a freakshow or in Area 51. ::: :::Next Game - Alexandria and its Lighthouse and a Man (Mark Antony) -- so who needs Elizabeth? - Comstock 3.0 time travels back to when he really can play god. Or Not. :::New pretty Egyptian themed scenery and mummies for slaughterable opponents... - But as Ken Levine stated this is the same Rapture as Bio1 but It doesn't feel like it at all and there's so many mistakes and budget- and time cuts; almost nothing from Bio2 (except Adonis, Dionysus, The Black Dream...and yea...),The tight corridors are gone, The Kashmir restaurant is not in anyway the same one we see in Bio1...Its high up from the Atlantic ocean floor just like the rest of BaS Rapture and just looks huge!!! while in Bio1 and 2 the ocean floor was always there...Drinkable Plasmids, A Academy in a department store, Audio diary's are dated wrongly.......AND NO TENENBAUM!!! now about the ending...the part where Elizabeth died was good (that sounds horrible) considering it was like an goodbye to Irrational, Elizabeth, Rapture and BioShock and I just would find it odd if they just made a new game anytime soon, That was an ending if anything. Now to the part that really annoyed me: Elizabeth is obsessed about saving Sally (which one can understand), which she does and then in the end when you get the flashbacks from Bio1; Tenenbaum says: "They say to save one life, is to save the world, entire, it is you who are there savior". which of course indicates why saving Sally was so important...Which also seems like the whole story was about saving just her...and completely ignoring the fact that thanks to Elizabeth's urge to "save one life", she caused a god damn war to brake out, causing a whole city to fall and thousands to die, but that doesn't matter when we got to save Sally.... -.- Shacob (talk) 14:20, May 28, 2014 (UTC) Recall that even in Infinite BS, Elizabeth just blips her and Booker to a more convenient dimension/timeline/parallel-universe leaving all those left in the other dimension (they just left) to their fates. Of course you could see it all as the ultimate cop-out, where 'what will happen will happen' no matter what Elizabeth (or you as Booker) does or doesn't do in all the infinite variations (player is a mere pawn - no significance whatsoever). No responsibility, just "stuff happens" - directly the opposite of Ryans philosophy, where people have the Will to change things. 04:21, August 17, 2014 (UTC) :Actually Elizabeth and Booker do NOT move between realities in BSI until the end of the game. The three times they "hop" realites, Elizabeth is actually merging two different realites togther. This is why you get people who are dead in one reality and alive in another coming down with Tear Sickness. Becasuse they are two versions of the same person merged together in two VERY different states (One Alive, One Dead). As for the Good Ending, there are a couple things to remember. Elizabeth had the power and knowledge to set up Jack saving the Little Sisters (not just Sally) as a Constant. Making the official end of BS1 is the Good Ending, the other ones are mearly gameplay options. The Rapture Civil War was going to happen anyways and in fact had already more or less started before Elizabeth even entered Rapture. Fontaine, Ryan and the people of Rapture started the Civil War. The only thing Elizabeth did was give Atlas the tools to expand it to a full blown conflict. And lets not forget Rapture was doomed anyway. What Elizabeth did was create a situation where at least some innocent people would get out alive. sm --Solarmech (talk) 18:25, August 17, 2014 (UTC) :They pop into the 'reality' where chen lin is :"Booker and Elizabeth head out, but arrive too late and find that Chen was beaten to death during interrogation for supporting the Vox. Elizabeth notices a Tear over Chen Lin's body and, upon opening it, she sees that Chen's body is no longer visible and that he could possibly be alive in the '''alternate world.' Booker and Elizabeth return to Chen's workshop, where the Buddhist shrine they had seen earlier has changed to a shrine to Comstock, Mrs. Lin is now Caucasian, and the equipment from the workshop is missing. Chen Lin himself is alive, but is apparently affected by his "resurrection" and cannot hear Booker or Elizabeth, complaining that the missing equipment 'is "too loud" and "very dangerous." ::::Sounds a little more changed than just X being effected by the Tear weirdness dont it ?? ::::Sorry, this is Switching realities/universes/dimensions/whatever - not merging 'realities'. ::::So this is another 'god' power somehow caused by the 'Quantum Physics'? Very convenient "snap of the fingers" plot device, but then "its only a game" ... ::::They seriously missed out on a REAL PROPER theme for this game -- of it actually being about 'Hubris', with the characters mistakenly thinking they could actually change anything (and more go back and 'fix' things). You make your mistakes, and face the consequences. :::: 06:12, August 18, 2014 (UTC) :::::If you want to talk about the tear with Chen Lin, I strongly suggest you go back and play the scene again. Pay attention to when Elizabeth opens the tear. What will happen is that the tear effect expands out from where Elizabeth opens the tear and as it passes over objects they will *change*. If Booker and Elizabeth just moved to a different reality you would see something like the tear Elizabeth opens to Paris, a door or portal in the air, not an ever expanding field of reality changes. What Elizabeth is doing is picking parts of one reality and merging it with her own. But she also does not have full control of her powers. So you get unforseen things like Chen and his wife being dead in the Vox Rebelion reality. sm --Solarmech (talk) 12:42, August 18, 2014 (UTC) :::::The problem is that you dont have to go through some hole you can see to switch between 'realities' - with every change made everything those changes touched or did mutates with them (infinite changes - ie - butterfly effect on steroids ) and that vastly changes other things in turn. They switch to a reality where Booker is dead and had done all kinds of different things and most of Columbia is turned upside down along with that difference (and who knows what else). Its not just a few peoples heads starting to explode if it was just somehow simply 'melded' -- its everybody in the fricken place then who suddenly isnt what they were before dead or otherwise. I dont know where they got the idea for this 'mind recreating memories' BS - add that to the list of "No sorry, QM has absolutely nothing to do with this" things. The Luteces seen to keep getting more Bookers when the last one failed ~150 times -- with whatever reality THAT/those Booker was/were taken from. Who now is to fix the 'poor little' Elizabeths in THOSE realities or do everything else in their potential lives when they bring him 'here' to die ? Nobody is going to save the infinite other Elizabeths trapped in the tower WHICH have already happened/will happen/will always happen... For every dimension 'god' Elizabeth steps into, there are infinitely more she never will get to. Every one she steps out of goes on its own path/course (without her meddling which who knows might be far better as it plays out). :::::No sorry, Infinity suddenly doesnt become 'just a few, because we say so'. If they dont apply their own backstory consistantly and just have things happen whichever way for some game scene/cockamamie plot detail they wrote it IS 'Infinite BS' on their part. ::::: 13:38, August 18, 2014 (UTC) :::::https://bioshock.fandom.com/wiki/File:RIP.png :::::Infant mortality in US in 1893 -1912 was roughly 25% ... happy ending - throw the dice again. :::::- ::::: :::::You seem to have missed a lot of things in the game. The Luteces didn't really care about Booker or Elizabeth as people. They where just tools and experimental subjects to them. As for all the other Elizabeth's? When our Elizabeth killed Booker at the Last Baptism, ALL the realities that that resulted from the creation of a Comstock where wiped from existence. As such ALL Elizabeth except "our" Elizbeth (also called Elizabeth Prime) were wiped from existence as well. So BSI DOES follow it's own rules. You just didn't pay attention. sm --Solarmech (talk) 18:23, August 18, 2014 (UTC) :::::Thats strange I thought there was this whole 'have to set things right' component (at least from Robert (?)) in the story. "When Elizabeth killed...." maybe thats the delusion we are witnessing as that not the way things work in "the multiverse" (that purportedly exists in that theory created to explain the wave/particle issue - if it is NOT '''infinite then it doesnt work and thus is inconsistant for the whole system they say this whole story is based on). The entire earth would be filled to the sky with infinite Elizabeths - unfortunately it would only be a tiny fraction (actually infintesimally small fraction) - but that wouldnt matter anyway because there is all the infinite Bookers in infinite other dimensions that havent been 'drowned' -- that is assuming as a given the BS about time travel, which again has absolutely NOTHING to do with Quantum Physics or any physics for that matter. We might as well say Elizabeth sprinkled some fairy dust and "made everything all better", which would be much more logical instead of trying to emply psuedo-science badly --- just to have some setting for a slaughterfest game with substandard combat mechanics and someones very twisted ideas about American history and religion. 06:08, August 19, 2014 (UTC) "Ace in the Hole" song Bit of a missed opportunity here to include the song in the soundtrack. I always though that it was an uncommon bit of phrasing on Atlas' part. Perhaps he was inspired by the 1941 Cole Porter song. Some artists who sang it before 1959 were Ella Fitzgerald and Jo Ann Greer. UpgradeTech (talk) 02:51, November 12, 2014 (UTC) Capitalization In my opinion, since Would You Kindly appears as "Would You Kindly" on Ryan's mural in Rapture Central Control (File:Would You Kindly.png) and any others are either not capitalized at all, or capitalized as not to stand out within sentence (such as Suchong's coded note, the radio subtitles or the letter of Jack's parents) I think the phrase should be capitalized as the title, and the same in the article, unless directly transcribing something. —'Mainframe98 talk·blog· ' 08:11, August 20, 2017 (UTC) :I agree. This phrase has special narrative importance to the BioShock series, so it's an important exception to general grammar rules. :Unownshipper (talk) 05:43, August 21, 2017 (UTC) ::Just because a phrase is “special” doesn’t mean it should be capitalized. The game can contain errors; for instance, if the game said “Would you kidly?” this wiki shouldn’t misspell it too. ::“Would you kindly?” isn’t a proper noun. 18:15, August 21, 2017 (UTC) :::Thing is, Would You Kindly is capitalized as appearing in-game. As an important plot element it couldn't have been capitalized as such in the radio messages, not that it would matter as the phrase is only heard by Jack, so he doesn't read it until in Rapture Central Control. Burial at Sea - Episode 2 has the phrase without any capitals, because it was on an encoded note - and at that point Elizabeth had more important things to worry about. Finally, Sofia Lamb refers in her audio diary Means of Control to the phrase as W-Y-K, further pointing to full capitalization. —'Mainframe98 talk·blog· ' 19:19, August 21, 2017 (UTC) ::::Like I said, games make mistakes. “Would You Kindly” is not the name of an organization, a person, a brand, etc. 19:20, August 21, 2017 (UTC) :::::Why are you pushing this? :::::We've all had primary education, it's not as though we need to be taught capitalization and grammar for the first time. We are making an EXCEPTION for this Wiki site. No one else has voiced an opinion that it should not be capitalized, a change has been made for the Manual of Style, and you stated that you'd go along with this Wiki's general rules and policies. So I ask again, why are you forcing this non-issue? I'm sorry to say it, but it's coming off as pedantic. :::::Unownshipper (talk) 20:18, August 21, 2017 (UTC) ::::::I’m not pushing anything. Am I not allowed to discuss on a talk page? ::::::If you want to capitalize it, go ahead, but you should explain why in your MoS. 20:20, August 21, 2017 (UTC) :::::::Of course you're allowed to discuss a topic, let's not be melodramatic here. Mainframe98 gave 3 examples here for why it ought to be capitalized on this site and Solarmech voiced a similar sentiment on your talk page. But just prior you did not argue that there should be an explanation why on the Manual, you just repeated the same proper noun argument. And I'm not trying to be rude here, but "the game made a mistake" is not a useful argument in the long run. :::::::Furthermore, there should not be an explanation on main page of the Manual of Style (that'd just make it even longer than it is), but we can add explanations on its Talk page if you'd like. But that's separate discussion entirely. :::::::Unownshipper (talk) 20:34, August 21, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::If this is not a style choice, what is it, then? 20:36, August 21, 2017 (UTC)